i'd like to see some open dialogue about suicide.. it's something that touches a lot of peoples' lives but they never talk about

In my (very) limited experience, it didn't seem to matter that the person had an amazingly strong support group around them, and that I personally showed them they are loved.

You could probably talk them out of it if they call you or something, but in that case I don't know if they are really suicidal or just need attention (don't flame me, I just don't understand the purpose of calling people if you really want to die, since they will try to stop you). Other than that, I don't know. If they believe themselves to be unloved/unlovable, no amount of hugs and cookies may make a difference.

I think all of those reasons you listed are all valid reasons why someone would feel suicidal.  And a lot of times all of those things go hand in hand. 

In some instances, there's nothing you can really do. Making a referral if someone is in danger is probably your best bet, but there's some instances where people are going to feel depressed/suicidal regardless of what you say or show them. I've experience with this myself. Someone I am close to was dealing with a very deep depression and having suicidal thoughts. For months I tried all kinds of different things, talking with them, hugging them, etc. None of these helped. The best thing that I could do for them was to force them to get help. Their cure was mainly in the form of a prescription, but also in the form of counseling and a strong support system. 

I know that a lot of people think that anti-depressants are a hoax, but I've seen it work (I'll be expecting a response from downwiththenwo). Maybe it's a placebo effect, but whatever it is, it has brought a loved one back from a dark place. 

There's a big difference between being depressed, being suicidal, and trying to commit suicide. In my experience, being suicidal is questioning whether you would rather die than have to work to keep living. In other words, you weigh the pleasures you get from life with not having to fight to get up every morning, go to work/school, etc. It isn't so much a on-the-fence "boy am I tired today, what about suicide?" but rather looking at suicide as an end to the pain and fatigue that you have to fight every day.

And also in my experience, you don't really commit to suicide without an event. People who flirt with suicide and are suicidal may do stuff that puts their life at risk (they *might* die) because they just don't care, and it's a difficult choice so if they were to "accidentally" die because they took too many sleeping pills, the choice would be made for them. However active suicide - choosing to do something that WILL kill you - in my experience always comes after something really shitty happens where you realize that you have nothing to live for and would rather be dead.

Though through all this, depression really fucks with your perception, and you have a hard time seeing the good things about your life and focus on a few ways in which you're wounded and think you can't recover. So... yeah...

I went through several periods in high school where my thoughts of suicide were high and my drive to live was at a low. I could find no reason to want to live. The fact that my parents/friends loved me was inconsequential to me at the time. I was constantly considered one of the smartest kids in my class, I was well liked, by my peers, and was able to do the things that I wanted to do. Even so that wasn't enough, life still held no meaning: What was the point if, in the end, I was going to die and be forgotten like nigh everyone else in history.

Eventually I was pulled out of the slump by my sister attempting suicide. While my sister's ingestion of pills did little more than require her to have a stomach pump, the attempt was clear and made me think about death differently.

Then, eventually, I fell back into the slump, trying to decide whether living a life that was ultimately pointless or dying without ever having lived is better. My answer came to me in the form of a compromise that, while life is ultimately pointless, if I could somehow achieve what others have, that is to 'never die' by still being remembered, than I would have made gold out of a life that was little more than copper.

Obviously my situation isn't the same as others. While I 'suffered' through some terrible things happening to my family, I was not individually harmed by the events (although such thinking is relative, as someone might say I was indeed harmed by the events). I wasn't abused or abandoned, but I certainly felt that living had no point.

Unfortunately the people who get help or tell friends/family probably wouldn't have gone through with it in the first place and if they did it would be more of a gesture then a real attempt.

I've gone through it myself and I let it go on for years without telling anyone. I knew if anyone found out they would try to stop me and make me feel that much more guilty for doing it. I was also just ashamed that I felt that way in the first place when I was so much better off than most of the worlds population. 

Don't get me wrong its awesome that you want to help people and I admire where your heart is at but when you say everyone is beautiful and put here for a purpose it is empty words to a person in that situation. Its like telling someone Jesus loves them. You would say the same thing no matter who was standing in front of you so it means nothing. Its hard to understand when you haven't been there but when you're depressed your mind is extremely cynical and you continually reinforce negative thoughts of yourself that often aren't true but eventually they become true because you really don't give a shit.  In fact if someone had told me that during that phase of my life it might have just made me mad and it definately would have made me withdraw from them.        

Like I said if someone is serious about it they won't tell you but you may notice them withdrawing from you and just seeming empty and distant. Its best to avoid confronting them about it right away but be company for them, remind them of what they used to love to do and break them out of their shell of isolation even if it takes some convincing.

hope that helps

I could talk a lot about this topic. And then some. And then some additional comments, as well.

But I'll cut out 99% of what a want to say and  improperly summarize my views on it ramble on uncontrollably.

Suicide attempts have only two functions: suicide (no, really), or a cry for help. The suicide attempt that often fail are often tactics that allow for some sort of "hopeful escape", that is to say, they are designed to have an escape pod, of sorts. Cutting and ingesting pills fall under this category. There is ample time for someone to find you and call for EMS to save you. But even if you're never found, you're body can still hold. If you ingest the pills too fast, you'll end up throwing up all of the pills before they've barely begun to dissolve. As for cutting, my old best friend attempted suicide via long, deep cuts down her arm. She bled for hours before I found out and called EMS. By the time EMS got there, she said she was fine (and physically, she somehow was), and essentially shooed them away She never passed out, even with all that blood loss, and when she went to get them stitched up at the hospital the next day, they told her the wounds were healing fine on their own, and they did, which was just crazy, if you saw how deep the cuts were.

Statistically, women are twice as likely to attempt suicide, but men are four times as likely to succeed (thank you, Psychology 110). Men are morely to use "sure" tactics: using a handgun, CO poisoning, hanging, etc. Women prefer to attempt an overdose or commit some form of self-harm. These tactics, as stated above, have more of a chance of failing. But when women or men use these less-effective tactics, is it because they're hoping that, should they survive, maybe those closest will finally see how bad they are hurting? To this, I say yes, even if it is the minority of the cases. But it is also deeply disturbing that some, if not few, people feel the only way they can get the help and attention they need is to put themselves through such horrible harm.

There are far too many issues that stem from this. When someone attempts suicide (or succeeds in the act), the initial thought of everyone is, "What could we have done differently?" and even, "What could have they done differently?" In a nutshell, the blame-game catches fire. Is the fault of the inattentive casual friends, or the parents that never showed love or approval? Were they abused in the past? On the other side, is it the fault of the individual for having inadequate coping skills, or for never seeking help, or rejecting help, and so on?

This is where I say things that bother people. This is just a personal opinion, but these are the wrong questions to ask. For those of us who have tried to talk someone out of suicide, even if you knew, or believed that they deeply wanted to live, you would see most of everything you would say would fall upon deaf ears. People in this state of mind are almost inconsolable no matter what you do. It is ultimately up to the individual to attempt to change their path. But don't interpret as putting the burdon on the individual. Should the individual choose to take their life, that is simply their choice. There is no "blame" and there is no tragedy. The emotional pain they cause other people, and so on, well, thats just other people being selfish, in my opinion. Most people say the individual is the one being selfish, but this is such a crock. This person is/was so miserable that they were seeking an earlier death, and all you can think about is how this shakes your world (Locke, this isn't about your post, or any others I've seen thus far; this is about the casual friends that only have their own interests at heart, that have no true caring of others, that are only reactive and not proactive).

The problem here is people view life as precious, as some sort of unalienable right. But are no such things as natural rights, and there is no inherant value of a life. Life is a blank slate to which we add and subtract. If someone's slate is consumed by misery, why is it they "must" live? To live in perpetual misery? Is this what you would wish upon someone, so that your definition of life and reality may proceed unhindered? Do what you feel you must do to help those you care for. But know that you are choosing to put yourself on the line. If you efforts produce no positive results, you cannot take it personally, and you cannot blame the individual, and your cannot blame other factors of life. By all means if it helps you cope, then do so. I just find it to be rather unhealthy. Mourn the loss of your loved ones, and mourn for your friends living in misery. But do not pity them. Do not judge them. Do not hate them.

the biggest problem is when a person is diagnosed with depression, then when their life gets better and they are working themselves off the meds doctors have to keep a close eye on them because when they are depressed they are too down to do anything about it, but once they are getting better if somthing happens that affects them the wrong way they have a greater tendency to turn suicidal

It's pretty rare that a doctor would wean someone off meds unless they were absolutely sure the patient had a full recovery... like, hasn't shown any depressive symptoms in several years. And there's something that the technical term is eluding me, but basically if you stop taking your meds too quickly, or before your body has had a chance to adjust, then you end up worse off than if you'd never taken meds because your brain chemistry is extra screwed up.

Withdrawal is the term you were intending, I think.

 It's actually kind of nice to see a discussion on this topic. I've known two people who have committed suicide: One who had help, support, and medication and still did it. The other, I always wonder if he would still be here if he knew how much he was cared for and had help... 

So reading this is kinda nice to know what other people think and to think about what they were going  through. Good topic. 

I agree with most of Fade's words. I guess I'll just share my personal story:

A girl in my high school class shot herself in the head the summer before senior year. It was just so shocking and really made me evaluate how I treated others because to be honest, nearly no one (myself included) treated her with respect and she was the butt of many jokes. I'm not saying that was the sole reason she killed herself but being ostracized by peers never helps a person. A lot of people were angry at her and there was even debate over whether or not to have a memorial page in the yearbook because what she did was "disgusting," "selfish," and "un-Christian." (Can you tell that I just ~*loved*~ my high school?) 

Some people are just too tender for this world. I'm not saying that to be insensitive but it's true. This is why even with support and meds, people still commit suicide. But as cool as you want to sound by not giving a shit if someone kills themselves, it's just not very realistic to ignore the emotions that come with suicide. It's tough.

Welllllll;

I am one of those people you are talking about...so, I can tell ya' all the stuff.

1.  Anti-depressants have side effects.  Believe it or not one of them is also suicide... so, yeah, people are weaned off the meds.  For someone like me though...  I've been known to cold turkey if the side effects are too hard to deal with.  And yes I get really sick.  And yes I get my butt chewed by the docs.  Yes, it's stupid, when you're going through it, it seems like a good idea.

2.  There's a whole list of things not to say to someone who is suicidal.  "It's selfish", "A long term solution to a short term problem", "don't you know you're hurting me too" "snap out of it"  And most "friends" abandon people who deal with suicidal thoughts.  Usually, because it doesn't go away...  and never does.  The person has to learn to cope.  I think the longer I've suffered with this the more comfortable I feel saying, "ok here I go again" and call or write someone I trust wont abandon me.  But still...you loose people which only makes things worse.

3.  There's a therapy called DBT, Dialectical Behavior Therapy.  Taking a official course in this is the best thing a suicidal person...especially with an illness that causes tendencies...can do for themselves.  I don't know if they have courses here...  but I know they have them and UW.

4.  Make your friend a cup of tea, put on some relaxing music, and hang out.  A suicidal person will fight you.  But they really need to be coddled.  Hugs are good too...but wait until the meloncholia subsides a bit (meloncholia I can only describe as this void of caring about anything...and you just don't wana "be here.")  All this usually happens for me late at night when no one is available.  I had an old lady who used to keep an eye on me.  Once I calmed down enough (got rid of that tunnle vission of irrational not listening to any advice)  I'd let her hug me.  But it took a while to get to that point. 

5.  When someone has the courage to say, "I'm suicidal...or having thoughts" that's when the hug is ok.  It's when a person is just starting to regain themselves.

6.  This is a serious illness...often fatal...  but good true blue friends and self-care...sleep, tea, relaxing music are the coping skills that pull a person through each "down-in-the-dumps." Thank you for caring enough to start this thread.

Having a therapy animal works wonders.  The most acceptable to have in society is a small dog.  Most people ask if it is a service animal when it comes with you.  In Washington state, if you're disabled, a therapy animal is considered a service animal.  I have a different kind of animal and people freak out, so, I don't get to have him here with me...and it's hard to find a place to live even when your friend is a service animal.  Also, it's hard to just up and tell someone that has the authority to let you keep it with you that... "my pet knows when I'm suicidal and snuggles up to with me until I'm out of it."  So, if a prof or someone has a pet on campus...  I visit a lot.

On the subject of therapy animals... if you're strapped for cash and need a couple of friends to cheer you up, get some pet rats. They're cheap, they're adorable (get over the tail), they're intelligent, loving, and relatively clean (mine are litter-box trained, your mileage may vary depending on how much you want to train them). Your jobs include cleaning their cage, giving them food, and giving them water. Always get two or more because they get lonely alone and spend as much time with them as you can. Mine have never bit me once, not even when I had to apply emergency first aid due to an injury caused by their cage. They don't live (very) long, 4 years at the max, and they're really great company. It's like having dogs in a cage. I feel that a connection with animals is beneficial mentally.

I'm very glad that someone has brought this up. Oh, and forgive my use of second person. It's directed at no one in particular.

From personal experience with depression, I have recently come to find that no matter the support system you have... it won't work if you don't use it or if your friends don't understand depression. It can be hard to get past certain feelings like shame or fear, but explaining to close friends allows them to help you when you need it. I keep myself shut up a lot of the time about it because it can be easy to feel like no one wants to listen.

When that happens, it can lead to things such as self-harm to call attention from others without actually having to say something. Sometimes (not always, but sometimes), that first step is just pushing yourself to be more honest and open with your support system so they can help you. I've only recently begun to do so and it works well for me.

As for folks on the "other side" of the fence who don't know how to help their friends, simply asking, "Are you okay?" can get the ball rolling. Unforunately, many that suffer with depression learn to mask it with "fine" and a smile.

Freaked out, insecure, neurotic, and emotional.

F.I.N.E.

If you know a friend has problems, ask if they'd like to talk. Make it known that you're there for them. You might feel like you don't have any advice to give, and that's all right. Much of the time, a friend may just need someone to listen.

Oh. And hugs are definitely a HUGE plus.

Major props to the OP on this one. Depression and suicide aren't discussed nearly enough on a public scale.

EDIT: Also, being in a place like Bellingham with those overcast skies, rainy days, and long dark hours, can take a toll on you. Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) can have an effect on people living in those conditions.

https://health.google.com/health/ref/Seasonal+affective+disorder

If you find yourself feeling great in spring and summer, but feel progressively depressed throughout fall and winter, talking to your doctor or a therapist can help you decide if you should pursue something like light therapy to get that good ol' vitamin D. Fish is also high in vitamin D... and actual vitamins never hurt either!

So, that's why my doc told me to eat sardines!  I thought he was being sarcastic!

Oh, and have a thing about rodents now...except I'd like a Chinchilla some day.  But...I had a hamster (because I could hide it in my bookshelf and made a little curtain around the cage so the landlord couldn't see it.  That little stinker lifted himself up and I saw a long stream of yellow landing right on my poetry books.  Then there was the English Lop that ripped the apolstry of the back of the entire couch.  I don't know what that was about!  Having a little animal like that is a good idea.  I hadn't thought about doing that again.

I've heard degus are cute. A Chilean rodent, I believe.

I'm partial to hedgehogs, though... some people just don't understand. They're adorable!

slog.thestranger.com/files/2007/01/hedgehog.JPG

Thanks for the link!  Yeah, I looked up dugus.  They look like a baby bunny, chinchila, and a hamster all mixed into one!  Cuteness!  I checked in the disability office to see if they have any therapy or service animals...any of the staff.  They don't.  Wouldn't it be cool to have a little pet place on campus!  That would be cool!  ...kinda like stables for horses where you can rent stalls and hang out with you're babies.  Ah...daydream.

i didnt read all the other posts but this is something that i have thought about a lot

for me it was always the case that it was just that i was better off dead.  i would be much less unhappy if i were.  my unhappiness came from so many sources from the state of the world, to the state of the community that i lived in, to my own inter/intrapersonal happiness.  out of these things i can only easily change one and therefore it was super hard for me to feel like i could even change being depressed.

that in itself takes a toll of you.  how can people continue to tell you that youre an amazing person if you feel like you would be happier dead?

recently i met someone who i really really enjoy being with but that person doesnt want a relationship.  we continue to be good friends but i am having to deal with the prospect of being around them while still liking them a lot.  its still putting my head in a spin and this response is really helping me evaluate things.  in this situation the depression comes an inability to see what the other person actually thinks.  in depression, thoughts are obscured, negative seems like the only option and apathy reinforces that fake truth.

depression is an entirely individual process in my opinion that is influenced by a lot of things. i would be happy to meet up with you and talk about this in person. jd_lee2003@yahoo.com

my mom worked with a kid who was put in an institution for being suicidal and he was there for 4 years and when he finally turned 18 to sign himself out he walked across the street went to the top of the first building and jumped off and killed himself.

the point, if people TRULY want to die, they will, and i believe they shall. its their choice, ultimately. i also believe, they should, because apart from close family and friends who can deal with the spiriling depression cycles, it bears no good for the heart of society.

[edited for content by moderator]

First off, your response is uncalled for "dangerdave". This is supposed to be a supportive post to foster understanding about depression and suicide, not criticize and belittle those that need help. Some attempt suicide with the full intentions of ending their life, but are stopped by someone.

What you are referring to is usually a cry for help because depression can bring such pain that it silences the person and unfortunately it may lead them to commit such acts to "speak" for them.

Second, your use of the word "retarded" is just blatantly inappropriate. We're adults; grow up a little please.

I'm very disappointed that someone who is a part of the Western community lacks the respect and willingness to understand individuals who may already be in a fragile state. Shame on you.

Have you ever tried to reopen the cuts on your wrists after losing several pints of blood and being unable to grip anything let alone have the muscular strength to make a cut, or been on the verge of dying from an overdose but started to recover and been too weak to grab another pill bottle to get back to dying , or jumped in front of a bus only to be taken to a hospital and survive?

You're probably trolling, which is sad, but if you're really that ignorant then please let us know, because only someone who's a complete moron would make a statement like that seriously.

Well, I agree that there is alway the question and feeling of "To live or not to live."  When depression hits and the chemicals in your brain make you highly motivated...stuff happens.  I took a load of pills...everything I had and walked off in the woods so no one would find me.  Someone did...  It gets worse with time if a person doesn't get help.

As far as people feeling sorry...  Well, most folks have the same oppinion you do.  There really isn't that much empathy out in the world for us.  If you noticed one of us asked to get together and chat.  That's trying to find someone who has the same problem.  You can call it retarded if you want...but from what I understand it's the opposite.  We're usually pretty bright...I think it's like a short circuiting kinda thing with the brain synapses that drags you down in the dumps...and at the same time other synapses are saying go go go. 

And I don't want you to feel sorry for me.

 As one of those people as well, I do public speaking about my experience for the National Association for the Mentally Ill. I'm SO glad this thread exists and I appreciate all of the opinions that are expressed here. But, please don't forget the seriousness of the situation. A couple things to keep in mind....

If a friend threatens to commit suicide, take it SERIOUSLY. Most if not all suicides are preventable and most have told someone about a plan to commit suicide. What can you do?

Tell SOMEONE or a person of authority, like a parent, or even a sibling. Preferably someone with them often, a roomate even.

Take them to the hospital so they can get crisis care attention. They will admit them if they have a plan to commit suicide, can't take care of themselves, or are a general harm to themselves or others. Most of the time its voluntary.

Talk to them.

Listen to them. Support them.

Be SURE they know they are loved.

Lastly, take away pills or tools that could be used to harm oneself. Even Advil isn't good when mixed with alcohol. Knives can be tough to take away, but pocketknives and others should be removed. Use your head. 

Suicides happen in clusters. If someone in your community has committed suicide, that can also spark suicidal thoughts in others at risk.

Also, something close to 90% of those that commit suicide struggle with a mental illness. It's legitimately not their fault. People with these chemical imbalances consistently have the same thoughts and say virtually the same thing. They are not unique, and they are not alone.  

Keep talking about suicide.Its important and preventable.

raffegt, I am not attacking your post, by any means. Rather, I am using it as an excuse to flood this thread with more of my thoughts.

This won't accomplish anything. Of the infinitely many ways we can harm ourselves or methods we have to obtain harmful materials or substance, taking away cliché "danger" items like knives and over-the-counter pain pills will not stall someone who is determined to die.

You seem to me claiming that suicide endangers other people, but individuals need to be held responsible to their own reactions to what others do.

Ah, yes. The ever politically-correct "mental illness" blanket. These days, most "illnesses" are simply abnormalities, that may unfavorable to one's health, or unfavorable socially. If you're suicidal, you're certainly not in a "normal" state of mind, but this does make you "mentally ill"? There's a lot that can go wrong in life. If you suffer from severe situational depression, you're not clinically depressed, you're just sad. You don't need placebos drugs, you need to get your life in order, and you need to be willing to ask for help that doesn't come in a bottle. If you're suicidal because you're so dissatisfied with your environment, past, present, and potential future, it's far more logical that your are simply miserable with life because, for lack of intelligent jargon, you think your life sucks. Are these people mentally ill? What if you believe life is ultimately meaningless? That belief doesn't make you sick in the head. In fact, I'd just think of you as a pessimistic empiricist. I wrote a lot of other stuff about this, there really isn't enough space in all of interwebdom, so I'll just stop here. There are actual legitimate mental illnesses, but you don't need to be "sick" to want to die.

But thanks,
 

I am really glad this topic is being discussed.

Oftentimes, people don't want to be open about. I am really glad we are getting to see so many opinions and thoughts on the matter. It is really encouraging!

There's a huge, huge difference between "baww your dog died and now you're sad" and sleeping 14+ hours a day, being unable to wake up, dealing with constant fatigue and unexplainable joint and muscle pain, having large gaps in memory, unmanageable mood swings, etc etc.

I guess if you wanted to talk about someone who doesn't like their life so they decide to off themselves, ok, but imo that's pretty rare.

As for not buying that it's an illness, actual depression manifests itself in the reuptake of serotonin and/or norepeneprhin. Biologically, the chemicals in your brain which affect your brain's ability to function start flooding your synapses, and depression is one result. So unless you think that most cancer patients are faking it and just have "overactive cell lifestyles" then you might want to re-check your view of an "illness".

Well...here

http://www.dbsalliance.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_facts_depressionfacts

For every 1 person murdered in the US 3 die of suicide.  Interesting...

http://www.dbsalliance.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_facts_bipolarf...

1 in 5 people with Manic Depression end their lives...interesting... 

and I don't know one healthy and happy person that has committed suicide.  Depression is an illness even if it is temporary...loss of a loved one. 

Everyone I've talked to that does it...  It is because they don't want to be a burden on others...they feel worthless.  It's not about other people.  So, I guess knowing that they aren't thinking about you are anyone else...that could be considered selfish...but then if they aren't thinking about anyone else.......  How can they be appealing for attention?  Conundrum.

So, then you also believe that the vast majority of those who have committed suicide are simply "ill." It seems to be a great way for "normal" people to emotionally distance themselves from these "disturbed" individuals.

Unlike the case for the diagnosis of cancer, your assumption that the diagnosis of clinical depression primarily uses objective biology is extremely humorous.

Um. Actually this is absolutely correct.  However, they can't use this to diagnose biologically...  It is what is happening though.  It is a biological issue.  So, what was said is a fact...not an assumption. 

I'm glad it was explained.  I would have had to write a novel...good job getting that into such a short and clear statement.  Awesome!

There's a really good documentary called Boy, Interrupted. Its about a boy who struggled with depression his whole life and ended up taking his life when he was 15. His parents made it as a sort of tribute to him and to educate people about depression. I highly reccommend it

When a patient comes in with certain cancer-like symptoms, they do tests to rule out other things. When all else fails, they do an MRI. Bingo, a big tumor-like object in their brain. Cancer diagnosis confirmed via objective biology.

When a patient comes in with certain depression-like symptoms, they do tests to rule out other things (like hyperthyroidism). When all else fails, they treat with anti-depressants. Bingo, symptoms disappear. Depression diagnosis confirmed via objective biology.

They could theoretically do an open-brain biopsy to test for levels of serotonin or norepenephrin, but generally it's not a good idea to take out chunks of white matter because... you know... it'd kill you.

As someone who has a neurodegenerative disease and previously dealt with depression, I can say quite confidently that I know a whole lot more about both brain chemistry and depression than you do. And while I'm sure you have some token knowledge of a 14 year old who lost her favorite purse and claimed to have "depression" because of it, that's obviously not actual depression, and no medical study would ever include data like that unless they were specifically trying to compare people who falsely claim depression to those who actually have a medical condition.

While in a public forum I'd usually respect the opinion of another person, if your only goal is to come here and ridicule a serious medical issue because of the few hypochondriacs who've abused its title, then please just stop posting because it's pretty offensive.

You know, this thread has actually been quite enlightening, even for me.  Honestly, I don't think I'd have said a word if I didn't have at least a small level of anonymity.  I don't know how easily my identity can be figured out, but I'd appreciate it if no one bothered trying.   

First, in response to the above statement, I agree whole-heartedly.  I truly do find the use of "depression" in a casual sense quite offensive.  Whenever I actually do tell someone I suffer from it, I get a whole lot of "I know what you mean."  I listen to them for ten seconds and I can tell they really don't.  "Depressed" is simply a synonym for "sad" with some people.  I think this particular sociolinguistic phenomenon has contributed to the idea that we are simply whiny.  To the contrary, not only do I not whine or cry, but I find myself unable to. 

Someone mentioned the "F.I.N.E." acronym earlier, but I had no idea I was indicating with such a simple little word, but it seems to hold true.  Not only do I not whine, but I do my best to act in the completely opposite direction around people.  Smile, laugh, and encourage it in others.  If someone's sad, perhaps ironically, I am the one that tries to lift their spirits. Perhaps I just don't want to see others suffer the same way I do.  Perhaps I just understand them in that state better than at any other time.  I'm not sure.  

I could go on about this subject for pages, but in the past three tiny paragraphs I've shared far more than I have in perhaps the past four to eight years of my life.  When considering that I am little more than a name on a page here, perhaps I still haven't.  Nevertheless, this will suffice for now.  

There's a pretty big social stigma against depression because people who've never experienced it simply don't understand that it isn't like you're sad and just need to look on the bright side. People who don't understand that it's an all-encompassing mental illness that really makes you unable to think differently tend to just think that there isn't a difference between being sad and having a major depressive disorder, except perhaps the degree feeling sad.

Also Ghost, one thing I realized was that I didn't ever really get better until I came to terms that it was something I didn't need to be ashamed of or hide away, because it was no different than a stubborn idiot with a broken leg pushing everyone away who was trying to help because they figured they could just "walk it off". So I'm not saying you have to bare your soul and admit every little thing of your personal experiences, but know that it's absolutely nothing you should be ashamed of. Everyone gets sick sometimes, and some of us got a little sick in the mind rather than getting the flu.

I agree.  I've heard the same thing so many times, although in not such harsh words as I've read here.  I've lost friends and a mentor who adored me when I was feeling fine...but then the "down in the dumps" person stepped in a few times too many and I'm thinking...  "man, if you only realized what I'm really going through, you'd kick your self in the butt for talking to me that way."  And when your there in the dumps...it's really hard to get just offended...  It hurts...and the pain comes back every time you fall in that hole like it just happened.  Imagine someone you care dearly for saying, "I wish you would just do it and get it over with.  I'm sick of this."  What do you say or do to repair that?  You can't.  When someone dear to you thinks that way about you...it's over.  It happens with family members even.  So now, a person has to deal with loss too...on top of the illness.  Sucks.

Ah...but good friends stick with you...  and some like to pick fun at suicide just to cheer you up...  Like...  So, down in the dumps again?  Me: Yeah  Response:  Well, just don't end up in the landfill.

Now, that's a friend!

Hypochondriasis is as equally valid a mental disorder as is depression. Hypochondriacs don't abuse any disease name, they actually believe that the symptoms they are experiencing are a symptom of serious illness. You can check the DSM-IV. 

What is meant here is exageration or fabrication of depression and suicidal tendencies/thoughts...  Crying wolf...  in order to get something a person wants...  or avoid getting something a person doesn't want.  The...."I swear if you leave me I'll kill myself" people.  You know...the melodramatic performances that make those of us who really have depression look like Soap Opera stars when we really need help.  So, the only people we can really count on are doctors who are really expensive and aren't open 24-7. 

For some reason this funk hits at odd ball hours.

It is still inappropriate to use "hypochondriacs" in that context.

Fair enough, I made the same mistake that I was demonizing. So not necessarily hypochondriacs, but people who claim to have diseases they don't to get attention.

i haven't read all of the posts above this, but this is a really great non-profit organization that deals with issues such as suicide if anyone would like to get more involved. i did an internship with these guys so i can personally vouch that they are all great people with their hearts and minds in the right place. they really care about people and genuinely want to help those who are in pain.

here's a link to their site:
http://www.twloha.com/

this is their mission statement:

To Write Love on Her Arms is a non-profit movement dedicated to presenting hope and finding help for people struggling with depression, addiction, self-injury and suicide. TWLOHA exists to encourage, inform, inspire and also to invest directly into treatment and recovery.

and a link to their vision statement:

http://www.twloha.com/vision/

I just wanted to check in... 

Now's a good time to post here if you need to.  This is one of the toughest holidays because it introduces us to the begining of the majority American holiday season.  I know I've been taking advantage of my "safe" friends over the past days here at "home."

If you're nervious about posting...  just keep the mantra going...  "There are brighter days ahead...just hold on."  Drink tea...stay away from stimulants or depressants...  even sugar, coffee, turkey...if you eat meat there are alternatives.  Hugs! 

I have helped some friends with these types of feelings and I actually sometimes feel this way. All I can suggest that you do is spend time with these people and be as kind and loving as you can to them. You can only do your best, no one knows what the best way to help out another person. And honestly, some people can't be helped no matter how much you try. Try to get to know these people, that in itself might help them. But you in getting to know them better you will also be able to think of better ways to aid them. Really, just be a good friend.

Probably the last time I'll be reading this forum, for a while anyhow, and it's a thread about the reason I'm dropping out of western. The little touches are nice.

As far as reasons go, I can't speak for others, but, finding life unrewarding, if not lacking in distractions, since as far back as I can remember combined with never feeling an emotional connection with anyone would be my reasons. 16 years of looking to find those things is a long enough wait as far as I'm concerned. To lose someone I had known for years and years, I missed them like I miss losing an object I favored. Gone. Oh well.

I will say, it's quite annyoing when you try to talk to others about being depressed and suicidal, but if you say it with mirth in your voice they just tell you cheer up already.

To address the first poster:

Depression is tough because it works on different people in different ways.  I cannot speak to how it works on others but I can give testament to my own experience. I have a lot of experience dealing with depression, Along with myself every person in my immediate family has been diagnosed with it, as have three out of four grandparents.  I have cared for depressed people at all points in my life and still don't understand it in a way that I can put into words.  I suppose that my best bet is to try to address each of your questions.

Depression comes packaged with all the ugly psychological baggage that we have acquired over our entire lives.  During times when depression hits, a lot of that ugly stuff can come to surface.  Imagine if you will the regrets you have.  Now assume that you only sleep two to three hour a night staring at the ceiling with regret to keep you company.  As a result of your sleep depravation and general emotional state, you tend to find yourself alone, even in a crowded room.  As time continues, the regrets build, as a depressed individual you are stigmatized but if you try you can "pass".  After a few years of this, the concept of death becomes less scary: life is a race, and you are losing, tired, and want to quit. Everybody dies, after all, better on one's own terms.  Speaking from my own experiences I could best describe my own attempts as coming from fatigue. Not so much tiredness of the body but tiredness of the spirit.

As to helping depressed people to realize that they are loved and that life is worth living, it is no easy task. The best things you have to offer are constant care, continual acceptance, and a willingness to forgive.  Sometimes the best thing is to say nothing at all, just being there and listening impartially can be the best thing you can do at times.  When talking to them, be careful not to invalidate their emotions, Statements like "it's not that bad" or "I know how you feel" make light of the fact that a person is hurting enough to kill themselves.  Accepting the depressed person for who they are is a huge deal, yeah they might be bitchy and cranky and the most painful person you have ever had to talk to right now, but those are the times when they need you most.  Depressed people can be really abrasive, hurtful and downright ornery so forgiveness is a must, sometimes we hurt so much we forget about how others feel.

In conclusion, I want to state that life can get better and I remember well my friends who stuck with me through the darkest hours of my life.  Also, people as a whole need to remember that "mentally ill" does not mean "incapable of making life decisions" or "stupid".  Often depressed people find that their thoughts aren't respected by those who believe that they cannot be correct because they are "crazy", large ammounts of information can be gained from asking your depressed friends they have amazing insights to their own situations, no doubt :).

TL;DR: people want to kill themselves for different reasons, people with depression are marginalised population who need constant care, support, and forgiveness. Life can get better, depression doesn't mean crazy. Your friends can tell you about how to best support them.

If you can hang on and not drop out...  I recomend pushing through the funk.

I made the mistake of dropping out and it was the worst decision of my life.

This quarter has been especially tough because I lost a 20 year old devoted friend to Cystic Fibrosis mid June.  One day she was there and the next she was gone.  I've been in and out of the crud...but I have a feeling I have more years of experience coping...because of my age.  I could quit now, but in 5 or 10 years I will be miserable, on Social Security Disability, working for minimum wage and barely able to make rent...  Let alone pay for medication and Dr. visits...

Take care of your building blocks now...like school...    I have so many regrets because I dropped out as a kid...dumbest thing I ever did...although I thought it was the only solution at the time.

When I hit a big rut last year, I headed to fifth floor Old Main. As long as you're a full time student, you're able to take advantage of WONDERFUL services at the mental health clinic. They aren't exactly long term, but if you need someone for short term help it's great. It can be that extra push to get you through a tough time. The folks there also have wonderful community references if you do find that you need long term therapy.

I definitely recommend checking it out. : )

EDIT: http://www.wwu.edu/chw/counseling/index.shtml

Is there a way for students to support other students going through tough times? I made it through some rough times and want to know if there are any campus groups that I can join to support other students with depression.

www.wwu.edu/chw/counseling/subpages/groups.shtml

It didn't seem like there was a group on that page fitting your description, but there are likely new groups set up throughout the year. I'm sure if you asked the center, they could give you answers. If all else fails, starting a group through the AS or just here would be a wonderful idea.

Well, last year at transitions they were plugging a student suport group that won a national award.  I'll look when I get back to campus on monday. 

Edit:  Although, these students are not qualified to handle crisis situations with people who have severe diagnosed cases of suicidal thoughts.  They are not trained in clinical psychology...just the temporary social stuff.

Maybe I should state why this could be a problem.  Someone who isn't properly trained won't know what to do with a person with reoccuring suicidal behavior.  If you don't go to a professional...very likely to end up in a hospital and miss some school.  The word to look for or ask for is "clinical."  The Psychologists and Psychiatrists on campus are trained to work with us folks.  Remember though...if you go off campus...be sure to ask your Psych...they don't always have experience in the clinical field.  You need someone who has experience...not someone who read a book...very important.  I would stay away from the "arm chair counselors."  I have not had a positive experience with "counselors"  In fact...I've walked away worse than when I originally went for help...including a recomendation for a med combo to my GP that almost killed me. Those of us that are really sick require patience on the part of the "helper" because we are damn stubborn.  Start challenging a person because they aren't "chilling" out and everything goes to "hell." 

It takes a very patient person to wait out an epinephrine rush until a persons synapses start catching signals in the right places again...  it's kinda like a seisure.  I heard it referred to as a kind of "temperal lobe epilepsy.  I may have posted this before...don't remember.  It is an interesting read.  I'm wondering how many of us that make it to University level actually have this:

http://alumnibulletin.med.harvard.edu/fascinoma/sight/incurable.php

 What did you even say?